tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post5928703323657970689..comments2024-03-26T09:23:26.937-04:00Comments on ZooTennis: Riffice and Forbes win USTA Collegiate Winter Wild Card Playoffs; Volynets Turns ProColette Lewishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14905215531491180014noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post-85255832332574906832020-01-30T10:36:05.401-05:002020-01-30T10:36:05.401-05:00Max Ho...true, but again, that makes my point.
Fi...Max Ho...true, but again, that makes my point.<br /><br />First of all, lets not get caught in the weeds of arguing about academies vs parents and miss the bigger point. That is USTA high performance is a losing proposition and the money should be used to help junior tennis overall instead of a few players.<br /><br />In the end, academies are for profit businesses. They use tuition from 100 kids to support free training for a couple kids at any point in time that they believe have pro potential. I'm good with that.<br /><br />But back to you point, true, a tiny percentage make it to a top pro. But of the top pros, almost all had a parent driving the development instead of a parent who just dropped the kid off to an academy and let the academy program do the developing.<br /><br />In South Florida we see tons of academy kids. They attend 3-4 hour sessions either once or twice per day. Many are at the same academy for 4-5-6-7 years. Their parents are hands off, usually quite busy doctors or business people. The academy literally controls every aspect of development, tournaments, free reign to develop the complete player. In many years I can not think of any of these players who ever became money making pros no matter how talented they were. <br /><br />All the top pros had a parent who was hands on. Sure some used academy coaches or facilities at some point, along with other coaches or facilities. And many times they also did some coaching.<br /><br />That is the only point I am making....there is a huge difference between the typical academy kid with a hands off parent and a kid with a hands on parent. Almost every single top pro had a hands on parent rather than a drop them off and let the academy program run the show. <br /><br />Jon Kingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post-13021240360324026122020-01-30T02:16:09.706-05:002020-01-30T02:16:09.706-05:00- A tiny percentage of players from academies ever...- A tiny percentage of players from academies ever become top players<br />- A tiny percentage of players that parents "run the show" and move them from coach to coach become top players<br />- A tiny percentage of players ever become top players<br />- A tiny percentage of parents have any idea how to develop top tennis players<br />- The players who make it to the tour level have a rare combination of talent, health, receive good coaching, have a support system works for them, and have some good luck along the way.<br /><br />Max Hohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11722804604997845975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post-79041199814128826482020-01-29T23:50:14.619-05:002020-01-29T23:50:14.619-05:00Sharapova, same thing as the other examples. Her d...Sharapova, same thing as the other examples. Her dad worked 2 jobs and trained her the best he could. IMG turned them down to use the courts at age 7 because she was too little. Then at age 9 they tried again after 2 more years of dad training her and using private coach. IMG then said she could use the courts.<br /><br />Sharapova's dad came by every day with a plan. She had to work with that coach on this part of her game and another coach on that. She had to hit with this hitter on this day. Dad used IMG for his purposes, ran the show, as opposed to the other kids simply left to the design of the typical IMG session.<br /><br />In fact, Pova was teased a lot by the other girls due to her special program. She got tired of the teasing and dad took her from IMG to Lansdorp who coached her privately for several years.<br /><br />You can not mix typical academy program kids with players whose parents ran the show but used academy facilities and coaches along the way. 2 different things.<br /><br />And it still does not address the bigger point....USTA high performance has even less success than academies...and academies are private companies. USTA needs to stop wasting money on its own high performance program. The private market has it all covered.Jon Kingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post-58519271275447727282020-01-29T20:56:10.451-05:002020-01-29T20:56:10.451-05:00I knew you would bring up Agassi! Thank you for p...I knew you would bring up Agassi! Thank you for proving my point. Agassi was Nick's start, since then how many 10000 kids have gone through Nick's place? How many became pros? Dedicated parents use coaches and academy facilities as needed. You are confusing that for an academy kid. Agassi's dad drilled him with the home made ball machine for years and years before Andre ever got to Nick's. Andre's dad did use Nicks for competition as you said. We have spent time with Nick, he is not a good technical coach at all. He is a great marketer.<br /><br />Most academy kids are dropped off by the parents and given over to the academy. They live there, train there, and none of them make it as top pros. That is 100% different than any of the examples you gave.<br /><br />Macci was a tool for Kenin at 5-6 years old to learn fundamentals. Contrast to the kids we see at Macci's every day for years now who never make it. Those are academy kids, not Kenin.<br /><br />Stephens used Evert's courts, we saw her there. Her mother also brought in numerous specialist coaches to teach her on those courts. Same with Savianos. Sloane was not in any way a typical academy kid. Her parent used the facilities and she was not enrolled in the day to day sessions with the other kids.<br /><br />Davenport as others said used Lansdorp. Robert hates academies and even wrote on his blog about the academy ball vs the pro ball. He is a private coach.<br /><br />Venus/Serena were coached for 2 years by Macci privately. At no time did they ever interact or train with any regular kids. Macci back then had only a hand full of students, the only one who ever hit with the sisters was Andy Roddick. Maccis was not anything like an academy back then. He was coaching a few kids privately.<br /><br />Anisimova, we knew her dad in New Jersey. He took her to every coach he could find. Then moved to Florida and used lots of coaches. Saviano did some feeds for her, worked on some things, as did other coaches, at no time did she do the 1 or 2 a day sessions with the other kids.<br /><br />Parents always run the show of the top players. They may spend time at an academy to use the courts or coaches. 100% different than the rest of the kids who do the sessions day after day with the rest of the kids.Jon Kingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post-58219341678829073692020-01-29T20:33:12.383-05:002020-01-29T20:33:12.383-05:00Lansdorp was a private coach, but developed many p...Lansdorp was a private coach, but developed many pros and thousands of great so cal players, and he did call his program an academy (trying to cash in when Bolletieri took off), but you are right. My point is that parents can only take their kids so far, Aggassi's father knew he had taken Andre as far as he could. My thought is that a huge part of the appeal of academies is that competition not only at the academy, but having so many high level junior and futures tournaments in Florida. John King said academies don't develop pros which is untrue, there are many American and foreign born players (Nishikori, Seles, Sharopova...) who were at Florida academies early. It is true that Bolletieri himself was not a good coach, but he had lots of good coaches on staff.<br /><br />All good discussionAlex Hohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18089638307058066014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post-18343775457494888492020-01-29T15:10:10.098-05:002020-01-29T15:10:10.098-05:00@alex ho. I think it's worth clarifying that L...@alex ho. I think it's worth clarifying that Landsdorp and Fisher are private coaches, they don't run academies. Also, Aggassi was primarily developed by his father (a tennis coach) and went to Bollettieri's only to get competition because he couldn't find any in Las Vegas once he turned about 14. As Mike Aggassi has said many times, he knew that Bollettieri didn't "know #*@& about tennis" but he knew his son would get the competition there that he needed to keep developing.Junior Developmentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post-33423992130380053632020-01-29T13:42:08.503-05:002020-01-29T13:42:08.503-05:00I am not sure how you can possibly say no academy ...I am not sure how you can possibly say no academy has been the primary developer of a top pro?<br />Obviously the top group of Americans from the 90's (Aggassi/Courier credit Bolletieri, Sampras started with Lansdorp and went to Fisher). The academy provides daily competitive environment as well as coaching which is well documented by Aggassi and Courier.<br /><br />It is very rare a parent can take a player past early teen years, I am not sure why you want to give the parent so much credit other than choosing the coaching? Not only can the parent player dynamic be challenging, but the higher the level the more technical the coaching must be. The player often needs a major technical change in stroke in the mid late teen years.<br />Davenport - Landsdorp<br />Kennin - Macci/Bollettieri<br />Stephens - Evert/Saviano<br />Venus/Serena - Macci<br />Anismova - Saviano<br /><br />I agree that USTA development does not get the credit, but the coaches and players do in my opinion.Alex Hohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18089638307058066014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post-38133348735650014622020-01-29T07:03:28.279-05:002020-01-29T07:03:28.279-05:00USTA high performance started out in Key Biscayne ...USTA high performance started out in Key Biscayne about 30 years ago. It later moved to Evert's campus in Boca Raton for years under Pat McEnroe, then to Lake Nona. It has produced nothing of note for the money.<br /><br />None of those players were developed by academies. Parents who direct the player's development will take them to a variety of coaches along the journey. At times these coaches may be working for a resort or for an academy or in private practice, because coaches changed locations all the time.<br /><br />The parent will use whatever facilities are convenient for training. Could be park court. Other times they negotiate for using an academy or resort's courts.<br /><br />But neither academies or USTA high performance has ever been the primary developer of a top pro.Jon Kingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post-69702152811115084602020-01-28T10:13:12.193-05:002020-01-28T10:13:12.193-05:00I don't believe usta high performance has been...I don't believe usta high performance has been around for 30 years.<br /><br />All those players you listed spent time at academies except DavenportMax Hohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11722804604997845975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post-91317132255800926812020-01-27T13:19:13.198-05:002020-01-27T13:19:13.198-05:00Max Ho....the USTA high performance has spent hund...Max Ho....the USTA high performance has spent hundreds of millions over 30 years and produced very little. All the American top players were developed by parents or private coaches. Not academies, not USTA high performance....but by private coaches and parents.<br /><br />Kids who train at Florida academies are paid for by their parents. A very high level administrator at an academy told us the academy has 2-3 kids who they believe in that are on full scholarship and the rest of the kids are paying for them. Very few top pros ever came from academies.<br /><br />There should be no USTA high performance program. Lake Nona serves no purpose. It is now mostly college tournaments and a few junior events, all which can be held elsewhere like in the past. The closed off high performance area is just like it was 20 years ago in Key Biscayne and 10 years ago at Boca Raton, just bigger. You can not hand pick who will be worth developing.<br /><br />It has nothing to do whether Bellis 'deserves' to train at Lake Nona for free or spend summers in Boca Raton for free. That is not the point. The point is that there should not be a high performance program in the first place.<br /><br />Bellis had parents who were smart. They had her train with private coaches when young. She hit with college players in Norcal when young. She would have developed just as well without any USTA high performance.....just like Kenin, Anisimova, Serena, Venus, Capriati, Davenport, Stephens and all the rest.<br /><br />Stop trying to hand pick players, it does not work. Use the USTA money to spread tennis far and wide, have very organized tournaments with less cheating so kids do not quit. Parents and coaches can apply for financial help to a USTA board with very specific criteria, so all US players who win tournaments can get funding.<br /><br />Instead of trying to pick out 8 boys and 8 girl to get lots of funding, use the money to help 1000 boys and 1000 girls stay in tennis. The ones with true promise will be scooped up and trained for free by private coaches who use a talented kid who wins tournaments to attract lots of other kids and parents. The free private market will develop the players just fine, like it always has.Jon Kingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post-5172636574408480202020-01-25T22:47:30.818-05:002020-01-25T22:47:30.818-05:00Most juniors start out local and end up a Florida ...Most juniors start out local and end up a Florida Academy. All of the players mentioned above did time at Evert, Macci, or IMG Academies. You go there to get great coaching, but most importantly to train with great players at great facilities. The Lake Nona campus is still new, so no one can say if its working or not yet. The Carson facility is great for west coast based players to have work out with other players and have training blocks. Most parent coaches take their kids a very short way, then bring player to academy and try to take all the credit, but they have no ability to coach at highest level. I don't know of any federations that identify very young kids and "make" players out of them. Kids play tennis and if they show promise, they are identified. <br /><br />I don't know why people care if someone travels the world playing tournaments and losing in the first round and calling themselves a pro, I am sure it is a very small club. It is not easy to get into ITF tournaments with out a ranking, and you don't get ranked unless you win matches.<br /><br />It is ridiculous to say that Bellis doesn't have the right to train at Lake Nona while she is rehabbing an injury. Are the only players allowed to train at the national training center athletically gifted specimens who have the potential to be #1 in the world? If someone is a grinder who tops out at 35 in the world at 18 she's not welcome? <br /><br />Max Hohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11722804604997845975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post-68576339285035962382020-01-25T17:18:54.920-05:002020-01-25T17:18:54.920-05:00It was not the ITF that wanted to shrink the numbe...It was not the ITF that wanted to shrink the number of pro players and it wasn’t the ITF that changed it back. Try the ATP.FYInoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post-89865948201105780632020-01-25T12:47:58.505-05:002020-01-25T12:47:58.505-05:00As a dues paying USTA member, it would be nice to ...As a dues paying USTA member, it would be nice to have some accountability from the USTA player development people. How is it decided who leads the department? Patrick McEnroe used to lead it, what were his qualifications for the job? Martin Blackman has replaced him, we knew Martin as a local tennis coach in Florida. What were his qualifications as far as developing players? What is the goal? The budget? When we visited Orlando we were told parts of the campus were off limits except to player development players. Who decides which players are selected? What is the criteria? What defines success? As another comment said, all or almost all of the highly ranked American players in history were developed outside the player development system. So why have it?Tennis mom of 3noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post-67146783945178753872020-01-25T11:58:34.956-05:002020-01-25T11:58:34.956-05:00Tennis for life...thanks for the information. I ha...Tennis for life...thanks for the information. I had been following the websites challenging the ITF. So they caved and went back to the old system? Wow.<br /><br />In the old system, resorts could host a tournament, charge an entry fee, require players to stay there, etc. Almost none of the players have a prayer of ever making money.<br /><br />One example of the old system. A 31 year old female player who was front and center complaining about the change in ITF rules. She enters the tournaments around the world at these resorts and clubs. She literally loses every match 6-0,6-0 or 6-0, 6-1 and has done so for 10 years. Obviously a parent or someone is paying for her to live.<br /><br />But if thats what we want to call a professional tennis player, go for it.<br /><br />Jon Kingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post-65767772681817982862020-01-25T10:29:46.759-05:002020-01-25T10:29:46.759-05:00Okay, I was wrong about the 2020 wildcards. Protec...Okay, I was wrong about the 2020 wildcards. Protected ranking, so be it. Excuse my error as we have seen the USTA high performance disaster for many years so I assume the worst at this point.<br /><br />So even with protected ranking, the overall story remains the same. Bellis did not need to be trained in the summers in Boca Raton at USTA expense. She did not need a ridiculous campus in Orlando, nor does US tennis. Private coaches or parents could have done the heavy lifting just like with Serena, Venus, Gauff, Kenin, Madison Keys, and on and on. Private and parent coaches have developed almost all the great players.<br /><br />The USTA has tried for over 30 years to handpick a few players for success. To the tune of countless millions spent. Meanwhile we see kids with promise quit tennis every day because the local tournaments are poorly run, bullies run wild, little supervision, poor awards, etc. How many athletic kids likely as good or better than Bellis have quit tennis due to poorly funded tournaments while USTA spent tons of money on a few players??<br /><br />USTA should stop trying to pick winners and get credit for it. Just run the tournaments better. A private or parent coach will develop the players. The USTA can have a board that reviews requests for funding from parents and private coaches. Funds can be distributed based on a transparent criteria. There is no need for separate USTA coaches or USTA facilities.<br /><br />Jon Kingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post-25245500636991443482020-01-25T10:28:37.949-05:002020-01-25T10:28:37.949-05:00Jon. The old system is back. The ITF tried to redu...Jon. The old system is back. The ITF tried to reduce the number of ranked players to 750 and briefly succeed. After a world wide outcry they folded and as of last week there are 1927 ATP ranked players. The economic structure of the tour is designed to make it impossible to make a living on the futures. Players that are going to be successful will be in the futures world for 6 months and then progress to challengers and beyond where it’s possible to at least break even. Seems a pretty good approach to me. Open the lower levels to as many players as practical and let the cream rise to the top. WC’s are a nice perk but they won’t drive success. In terms of this thread I’m lost as to why it matters if the player ranked 1925 calls himself a professional and who might possible care. There are good players, who love to play and have the personal support to carry on, sometimes for years but what’s the harm. As long as the bottom of the funnel is wide enough to accommodate all aspiring players there not much downside. <br /><br />I agree that US Player development is an Epic waste of money. $300mm over the last 10 years has produced nothing. It’s a works program for USTA staff. <br />Tennis for Life.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post-88297821018315925552020-01-25T09:18:40.042-05:002020-01-25T09:18:40.042-05:00Jon King:
Again, I repeat, Bellis did not receive...Jon King:<br />Again, I repeat, Bellis did not receive any wild cards in 2020. She is using a protected ranking for entry.Colette Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14905215531491180014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post-45206923129064142582020-01-25T08:34:15.501-05:002020-01-25T08:34:15.501-05:00Under the old system, 2000 men and 2000 women were...Under the old system, 2000 men and 2000 women were entering tournaments around the world. The new system is trying to cut it down to 750 men and 750 women. It is irrelevant how 'hard' it is to get an ATP point. It is also hard to be a pro basketball player with so much global competition. Great players in every sport will not always make it as professionals.<br /><br />The USTA has always tried to decide who will make it in professional tennis. But that never has worked. Bellis is solid but does not have the potential to be a #1 player, so to put so much time and effort and money and wildcards into one player never made sense. Of course with all those wildcards and bypassing grueling qualifying she will once again get into the top 200 or even up to 50 or 60 or 70. So what? The WTA field is deeper than 3 years ago so she won't reach #35 ever again, and even that is not worth all the effort and favors done for her. <br /><br />If they get that many main draw wildcards, many talented players from all over the world will get on a run and win 2 or 3 matches at some point. It makes no sense to try and choose players to give so much support. <br /><br />USTA high performance is a waste of money. The dad coaches and private coaches will develop all the players. The USTA should just run lots of fair and organized tournaments, thats it. And no player should get 3 wildcards in a row like Bellis did. And no player ranked 838 at the time should get a main draw wildcard into a Grand Slam. Defending such a system is ridiculous.<br />Jon Kingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post-86014887601869773382020-01-22T09:04:46.130-05:002020-01-22T09:04:46.130-05:00Tommy Paul, USA upsets Grigor Dimitrov, in the 2nd...Tommy Paul, USA upsets Grigor Dimitrov, in the 2nd round down under at the Aussie Open in a tough 5 setter: 4, 6, -3,-6. 6(10-3). Congrats to T Paul!CONGRATS!noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post-50133493280113586732020-01-22T08:45:47.395-05:002020-01-22T08:45:47.395-05:00Speaking of USTA Wild Cards...The Weston $25,000 i...Speaking of USTA Wild Cards...The Weston $25,000 is next week. Here are my bets on the WC's to be awarded: Kypson, Svajda, and Nava. Seems like they are the "Go To" WC's for the USTA.BETCHAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post-33881441293349033412020-01-21T22:47:05.488-05:002020-01-21T22:47:05.488-05:00
Getting one ATP is a huge accomplishment, anyone ...<br />Getting one ATP is a huge accomplishment, anyone who does not know that has never played at a decent level. I think many of critics should actually attend the qualies of a Futures or challenger event and see how great these players are, and how hard tour life and high the level of play is week to week for very little money. It is also very difficult to win more than a match or two in mens open tournaments in California.<br /><br />Nice to see Bellis win with after lay off due to injuries, I am sure she has insurance to cover her rehab.Max Hohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11722804604997845975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post-80997204924469930752020-01-21T17:28:13.494-05:002020-01-21T17:28:13.494-05:00For all you folks who were sleeping under a rock a...For all you folks who were sleeping under a rock and missed the article explaining the "<br />ITF, WTA AND ATP DELIVER OPTIMISED PROFESSIONAL TENNIS STRUCTURE" published May 23,2019...here it is......http://cms.itftennis.com/media/305822/305822.pdfFor Your Educational Entertainmentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post-45903099066443932592020-01-21T09:31:22.642-05:002020-01-21T09:31:22.642-05:00The ITF restored ATP points at Futures beginning i...The ITF restored ATP points at Futures beginning in August of last year.Colette Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14905215531491180014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post-80092989181485765542020-01-21T00:36:23.316-05:002020-01-21T00:36:23.316-05:00ATP points are no longer given in Futures, only Ch...ATP points are no longer given in Futures, only Challengers. And so many guys had 1 or a couple ATP points under the old system. Like hundreds and hundreds with a few ATP points.<br /><br />So if a guy plays a men's open for a few hundred dollars or gets one ATP point, what really is the difference? They both play professional tennis in that they played for money. Neither will make a living from it, ATP point of not.Paul Fernadeznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10016685.post-78167017290741507452020-01-19T18:32:24.307-05:002020-01-19T18:32:24.307-05:00Paul, Sorry, I must have been sleeping under a roc...Paul, Sorry, I must have been sleeping under a rock, when did "Open / Money " Tournaments start giving ATP Points if you Win a round?Confusednoreply@blogger.com